How Will Palmer From BizFinder SEO Is Helping Small Law Firms With SEO (Customer Story)

Nick Kozmin and Will Palmer


Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right guys. So I have one of my customers Will Palmer here, and he is a where from Kansas. He's in Kansas city, Kansas city. All right. And he is an expert in helping small legal firms in the US mostly personal injury, family law, criminal defense mass tort class action firms scale-up. And he's been a customer for, He's been playing around with a few offers, very talented guy. And in this in this conversation, he's going to share some tactics on how to increase your organic search and how to write content that ranks in search, which is really, really important these days. So we'll, I'll pass it off to you. Why don't we just do a quick background? What's your story? How'd you get here? And yeah, let's start with that.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'll make it high level and quick, but found, I don't know, year and a half ago Nick's messaging spoke to me and in the long form stuff and, and, and basically pulled me in. And then I thought if it worked on myself, it's got to work for my clients. So that's kind of what pulled me in. And my backgrounds in professional sales have a journalism and marketing degree in English degree at a Kansas, and then was in sales for basically 10 years after that left my quit, my lucrative sales career, 10 months ago to go out on my own to kind of build my own empire. Just thought I could do things more, better, more efficiently and better and have more control, obviously. So sales process has been somewhat of a guiding light and mistakes to avoid what to do, right.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
And just kind of a good place to bounce ideas around. So I'm at the point where it taught me what not to do so that I could scrap some really bad ideas that I had and actually reformat my entire business where I niched down was much more specific with my offer, much more specific with who I was targeting, what we were doing for them, and created a lot of efficiencies with process in doing that. The, the growth that took me to achieve in 12 months with my first entity first business has happened since December of 2020, and it's, you know, April. So it's, it's been a huge help to just take some basic principles as simple as they may seem and apply them within your business. So my areas of expertise, as Nick mentioned you know, what to do to write content or just rank organically.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
It's a very lucrative channel that is, I think, exploited heavily in the marketing world. And there's a lot of weird advice out there. Everyone has their own idea of what works and doesn't work. So we try to cut through the clutter and the noise and just focus on what really moves the needle in terms of reaching your targeted audience with the right messaging, the right content and that kind of stuff. So that's kinda what I've been focusing on. And also the sales aspect. I think I could provide a lot of value to customers on, on just how to run a sales call and just things like that and questioning and all of those good things. So awesome. In

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Your sales career, what were you selling? What and what industry were you in?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
It started out with ADP selling payroll, you know, hustling door to door out in the, in the, he was out living in Newport beach, California for a few years and you know, found success president's club qualifier at ADP, and, you know, went through top gun management programs and won some bunch of sales contests there. Was there actually six, almost seven years where I was recruited to Thomson Reuters and sold legal marketing for one of their boutique divisions of, of kind of their consulting division for again, almost seven years with them. You know, rookie of the year president's club qualifier with those guys. And then when I saw there was a better way to do this on my own, like I mentioned, 10 months ago, I just pulled the, pull, the rip cord and jumped and it's been awesome. So,

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah. And you got from zero to 44,000 monthly recurring revenue four months. That's pretty awesome. It's that's pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah. And then the first entity was at like 30, so, you know, we're sitting at like, and that's been steady. So we're sitting at like 75 K MRR. Kind of, since I quit, I guess I was kind of moonlighting for a bit there, but, but yeah, I think when you're targeted and niche down, it's just like, gosh, you know, create a lot of blue water for yourself. Like you talk about next. So that's been helpful.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
That's awesome. Well, let's talk about organic traffic so that it's like it's constantly changing, right? There's platforms popping up. There's a ton of people creating content. If we could give a few pointers, like how, how to create an organic traffic, that's a, how can we provide a value to these to the, to the viewers here? Let's give some pointers.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I mean, again, I guess there's two, there's two ways to get traffic to your site. You're either going to trade your, your own time to do it yourself, which is not what I really suggest, because I think, you know, I think most of us in this community believe we want to pay for earning our time back. So finding an expert, but I think, I think just basically basic principles, writing long form content, not just with ads and things like that, but just static website content, whether it's service pages or, or blog pages. If you look at the data behind Google and where they rank, you know, page one position one through five content, it's usually well over 1500 words long. A lot of people think about how they could do that. And that sounds really daunting. Something I've done. That's a quick tip on how to write long form content is just to, you know, dictate or transcribe what you would say, like on a call like this through Google or any other dictation tool and just take your ums and your likes out of there.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Don't worry about getting it perfect. And you can actually speak your content and edit that really quickly to put up on, on your, on your site, your, your, the area of, you know, the expert area of whatever you're doing and providing. So that's a good way to add long form content, you know, provide value and speak to the consumers the way you would speak to a friend. I think people try to manipulate how Google's ranking things and you know, more human than ever. They understand the English language, they understand how words relate to each other, and there's no more keyword, stuffing and manipulation. Really. You just have to provide value in your content. So stop worry about how to game Google and just provide real value in long form and answer questions that you know, your clients are asking you. And there's also tools to find those out. I think you're going to go far if you do it, those things. So,

Speaker 1 (06:20):
And so how about, let's talk about finding those topics and coming up with those topics, what strategies do you use to to, to determine the topics that are most relevant to the audience?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Million ways? That one, there's a, there's a Chrome extension called keywords everywhere. I'm just looking at it on my other screen. I'm talking freeways that keyword everywhere extension, if you just put in, I mean, I don't care what SAS product or whatever you sell for me, I can put in law firm SEO. And it would just bring up dozens of keywords that are related, that people are searching. FAQ keywords are huge, things like that. So I'm Neil Patel has Uber suggest, which is another free tool. That's pretty good. You know, we use SEMrush as an SEO tool as a paid version. There's a lot of them out there, but, you know, just kind of do your own research and look at some of those things that like keywords everywhere. That'll tell you what people are searching. There's also goop, you know, Google trends and what Google questions is something new where it's showing you, what are people asking from a question standpoint that's kind of underserved from a search result standpoint. So there's a lot of tools out there. Just find one and use it. Don't assume anything you'll be set.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Right. And then how do you, so once you find the keyword, how do you determine the topic? Do you, or is it, are you looking at other pieces of content that are ranking well, how do you know what like what is valuable? Are you doing a period of research? What does that process look like?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I mean, I think you can, but definitely I would start with just putting in a search query. I think you have to step back and think about who's your audience? What are they asking? What problem are you solving, obviously with your service and then figure out really what they care most about. Don't again, try to manipulate and sell yourself. It's really, you know, this value first mindset reciprocity, if you're, you know, giving and giving and giving you're going to get, so those things determine what your customers are asking, which Nick, obviously you have those worksheets in those pieces at the front end of your program. That's like exactly what your clients are going to need from you take those pieces and that spreadsheet apply it to post. And you can look at what competitors are ranking, just put it in Google, put yourself in the shoes of your client and write and do what they would do and figure out what is out there and then figure out why, you know, what's the ranking in content wise and then go after it, use that as research. So,

Speaker 1 (08:40):
And let's talk about frequency. How many posts are you creating a week? Like what's the what cadence have you found to be most effective?

Speaker 2 (08:50):
I mean the more, the better there's no, there's no, there's no too much content. In my opinion. I don't, I don't believe again, it's just about, if you have some money to invest for somebody to do it, just get a quality writer like for our team and our business. We, we, we pay a very high premium for people that have, you know, MBAs or some of them have JDS, even that are writing content for our clients. Our clients are willing to pay that premium because it, you just have to have quality content. So we have some clients that'll do, you know, eight posts a month, 1200 words each as sort of a baseline blog platform. But if you're doing it for yourself, you know, you can hire somebody and train them pretty cheap, or even a VA, you know, just make sure it's good. It's not going to work. If it's broken English or somebody that doesn't know your industry, you can't kind of fake it. You can spend a lot of time and effort trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with that in pay for quality and make it quality. But as much time as you have humanly possible to write content, do it. I mean, yeah. I don't know. It's the way it is nowadays.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah. Well, well, let's talk about the I get this question a lot as a TA. What is the day, or what does the week structure look like? You're a sole founder. Do you have a business partner? How does

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Not yet. Not yet. I mean, I'm the, yeah, I'm the sole founder, our team on the a hundred percent equity owner. So

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah. So how do you structure your day? Like how do, how do you get the content in, you're obviously doing the sales you're managing the marketing. Are you doing any paid advertising yet? Not yet. So it's just all organic. You obviously have to manage the backend, right? So what does that day look like? Let's say that's a real, it's a common question. That folks starting out are asking. So what does a typical weekend day look like?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
That's a great question and something I ask a lot too, because on one hand you can spend a lot of time and it's fun to create creative assets or content because it's like, gosh, I know a lot about this. I can just kind of tinker around with the computer and write a ton of, of stuff. I feel like that can be a big trap. And it has been for me. I mean, if I'm prioritizing what I'm spending my time in, what my day's structured, as I'm a little unique in that I'm not running paid ads. I mean, I do have some organic traffic. I happen to have the luxury of an incredibly strong, connected, well connected network within the legal community, from my previous background, which not everybody has. So if, if I'm assuming I don't have that, if I were to give advice in terms of where I'm prioritizing my time, if I'm following your sort of guidelines, Nick, around answering the, the why, why us?

Speaker 2 (11:20):
What makes us different unique value, differentiators, creating some really high quality assets on video or some downloadable assets. I would really focus on that. And then, I mean, pick up the phone and call. I mean, you have to spend, I try to, I have something you can't see it above me. If I'm, if I'm spending all my time, either selling or teaching somebody how and educating somebody on my team, how to do all the tactical stuff on my job, I'm growing the business. So I think as entrepreneurs stop doing feel-good stuff and work selling and all the, all the content, all that will start taking care of itself. When you have some money, you can start reinvesting into those things. I would just be picking up the phone, calling people instead of, you know, writing content and trying to rank organically. And then I would take money and pay somebody else to do it because you just don't have enough time. It's just too much.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah. That's actually, that's actually an interesting point that you brought that you brought up because I have a similar background. I started as an engineering background, but my first job really was selling. And it sounds like you did, you had an extensive sales career.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
There's stories of like going, where were you selling them? Something funky. Right?

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, I was selling in Canada. I was selling lawn aeration, like home services, lawn aeration and driveway ceiling. That's right. Yeah, he is. He was hustling out there. Yeah. So I was not only selling it, but I was doing the work. I can imagine 30 lawns a day. Right. Like, I don't know how I did it, but it sounds like the salespeople who start the bid, like they don't have to, they can get businesses off the ground really fast if their salesperson. Right. So it's interesting to hear your perspective. It's similar mine is focused on selling first and then using the content to support the, the sale, right? Like it's giving you that status Delta it's giving you sometimes it takes like seven hours of time for somebody to really trust you. If they don't know, if someone takes a cold call from you, then they look you up, they might give you a call back. Right. so how, I guess the question is how important you think the sales background is in the success of getting something off the ground, like zero to 70,000 a month in the, in the timeframe that you've done it?

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Well, I mean, here's the cool thing about sales it's it's well, it may be the most important thing for an entrepreneurial in terms of skillset. I think, I think period, I mean, we're all adverse to some risks, but the cool thing about sales is it's you hear about like, Oh, they're were born salesperson. Well, not really. You can learn sales if you get over your trepidation of, of fear around it. And I know a lot of entrepreneurs that don't really have that fear necessarily, but I mean, I think it's a learned skill that, that I think you offer how to structure sales teams, Nick, it's part of your program. I haven't dove into it, which is, I love that you're tackling that. I think it's so hugely important, but I think it's a learned skill and it comes with repetition, honestly. I mean, a lot of people think they have to have something nailed down before they pick up the phone or send an email or send a video.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I use a loom video a lot. I'll, I'll make a quick loom video and send it to people. It crushes you know, and I'm very assumptive to, you know, I, I don't like fluff or BS and I just, I would say cut straight to the point and just don't, don't just know who you're talking to and give them something of value. Right. When you're like, Hey, I saw you, I researched you online. I bet your problems are X, Y, and Z. Here's how I can solve them. Let me know if you want to chat. So yeah, I mean, just, just do it. You just got to do it, put in the reps. Got it. Let's

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Maybe let's talk about the transition, like the niching down. So you were focusing on a few customers, you, you had a few different segments that you were focusing on. How was that? And then what was the point where you decided to jump all in into one niche and how, and what did, what were the emotions and, and maybe describe that.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
I think that's important. And it's a good question. The, the, the problem with me in terms of going too broad wasn't necessarily like the, the audience or the industry. I was focused on med spas, which have money high propensity to buy all of those good things that lined up and they, and they see the value in marketing. So gosh, that makes a lot of sense. The problem was my service offering itself was too broad. In other words, because I had skillsets around everything from, you know, having a team to create websites. We talked about content SEO marketing automation, email, text message, automation, stuff, sales funnels you know, auto dialers. There's just an infinite world of marketing tools at our fingertips. And because I was skilled enough to offer those things to clients there was no succinct process with selling, executing and delivering some kind of package, even.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
It was just too broad. So I just got totally hammered by and bogged down by just the, the scope and the breadth of the services I was offering. So, and med spas are hel Helen needy, and they're, they're their own special people, which is fine, but I just wasn't a fit for my personality. I just love working with lawyers and, and maybe like arguing with people maybe because of a sales person, but I just like working with lawyers have for a long time. So when I stopped trying to offer everything, I started saying no to a lot of people, which was really, really hard for awhile because, you know, I'm out to quit my job. And then I did quit my job. And, you know, I didn't make a million dollars a year, but I made almost half a million a year doing that. So I'm like, gosh, I have a pretty good lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Why would I give all this up to like put my entire family, my two kids at risk? And so I was saying yes to everybody, which is another trap I fell into. So when I niched down and it was like really definitive on, like our minimum spend is usually like 2000 bucks a month. I really turn a lot of business away that is like wanting to work with us. But those are the needy clients that take a ton of time. So I was really specific on saying no really specific on who is a good fit for us. I mean, you know, we try to be not a commodity in our space because there's a lot of commoditized, SEO services and marketing services. So we're really trying to be a high end player. And that requires certain clientele. So when I did that, all of a sudden the flood Gates have just in the last 90 days, opened up to where I'm getting referred by some of the top firms in the country that are like, this guy knows what he's doing, because he's so specific. He's not trying to go so broad. There's nobody else doing it so specifically. And that's huge. So that's what you got to find.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yep. I remember the point when I did that too. And the flood Gates open.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's an amazing field. I can't even keep up with the people that want to work with me. I'm like hiring salespeople, like get on here. I can't handle the business. That's like an insane problem.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah. Was it challenging to give up those customers or was it just like, I must do it.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
It was really hard. Yeah. Half of them were like already customers. And I mean, I was like literally anxious and freaking out about some of them. I mean, I had a client like a year ago, a med spa for, I, I switched everything spinning, like close to 30 K a month. Now I at least half of that was Aspen. So, but still I was responsible for a large budget. I mean, that's a huge budget for a two location med spa, 30 K a month. And they were just incredibly hard to deal with. And I just was like, well, this is what's keeping me afloat this client. And I, you know, I had to like, eventually we had to like have a come to Jesus where I just couldn't do it. It was crazy. I was like, Holy, what did I do? Leaving my job. And now having to turn down this business. But I mean, those are the things as entrepreneurs. I just, I didn't know what to expect, but I mean, it was hard, but people need to do that. I think it's so, so huge.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
That's yeah. That's really interesting. Maybe let's talk about the the family, how you juggled that because that's some, that's a question that comes up and in my program, like I don't have the expertise to do that cause I haven't had my family yet. Right. maybe let's talk about the transition from the job with the family, to the entrepreneur, to becoming an entrepreneur. How did you, what was the thought process? What were you, what was the plan? What were some of the strategies that you use to make sure that everything was okay with the family?

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, that's a great question. I think here's a myth I want to dispel that. I think a lot of people, family or no family assume about entrepreneurship is that you're going to be a slave working 80 hours a week to make it work. I just don't buy into that. I mean, one of the books, obviously a staple for anybody, the four hour work week, Tim Ferriss. I mean, that's one of the handful of books that sort of completely changed my theory and how I think things, I would consider myself like a lifestyle entrepreneur. And then I just refuse to like, you know, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna start something and create something, I mean, let's find the joy in what we do and all of that. So to do that, I really was processed heavy on the front end to a fault almost to obsessed with efficiencies, to where I'm like becoming inefficient.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's like a, it's like a bell curve where I'm coming in by trying to create efficiency. So I was overthinking it, but you do want to get your ducks in a row so that you can outsource. And just time is our biggest asset. We're all gonna be dead someday soon. Right. We're just, we're just a blip in the, in the, in the universe. So I'm like, man, I, I would, I spend a lot of money to get my time back. I don't mow my yard. I don't, you know, we have a cleaning lady. Like our household expenses are high, but I get time to run my business to be with my family. I mean, I definitely don't work over 40, 45 hours a week even now because I choose not to. I think it's a choice ultimately. So just build processes believe in outsourcing to gain your time back. And that's just a personal choice. Not everyone, you know, some people are cool hustling eight hours a week. Cause they can, if I was single, like I love doing what I do. What the hell else would I do? I, I usually am on clubhouse till 11:00 PM on Saturdays and Fridays because I don't have anything. I just think that's fun to nerd out. But yeah. I mean, you don't have to be that way. I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Got it. Yeah. No, that's an, that's definitely an interesting perspective and you're the wife and kids were on board. They did they know what was going on with, did you tell him there was a a time like a year? Maybe I know I've seen some customers say, Hey, I'm going to give it a year or two years. This is, and you had some savings and, and you ha you basically had a cushion. Cause there are S there will be some people listening that are probably in your position. They, they want to make the jump.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you, you, before I jumped, I made sacrifices to have a runway, have some cash. You know, there are other things you can do, like have a home equity line of credit, you know, have some safety nets around, you know, I'm not suggesting have credit cards to start maxing out, but I'm just saying sometimes you got to roll the dice and risks, some stuff to, to get to these places. Now I didn't have to do those things. I did have some cash, but yeah, my wife always knew that I wasn't going to just be sort of handcuffed to corporate America, even though it treated me well for 13 years. And I learned a ton about business, but I think we're all creative people that are in your group are listening. We all have ambition. And so I think, I think you just gotta go with your instinct. I don't know exactly what your specific question was. Nick kind of got off track there, but just,

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Did you need a pillow

Speaker 2 (22:39):
A little bit? I mean, I, like I said, I was moonlighting. I mean, if you listened to anyone like Gary V and all of, all of those people, there'll be like, dude, just have a side hustle. Right. That's what I did. I mean, you, I, I joked with my wife all the time, half kidding. Like I just want to have a drop ship, not, not provide drop shipping, but just have like a teacher company I'm like, I'm convinced I can get the cost per unit down with Facebook ads so low that I could basically be generating 50 K a month selling like silly t-shirts online. Just cause I think that'd be funny. I mean, there's a lot of things you can do to make money nowadays. So, you know, put a side hustle in place, save up some money and be confident in your abilities and just, just pull, pull the cord.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Got it. So another point is the, I guess we can jump back to the, the actual stuff, the ranking in search. So how, in your opinion, what's the best way to rank once you, once you find the keywords, once you have the topics what are some strategies that one can use to rank in in their specific niche?

Speaker 2 (23:43):
So if I, if I'm just cutting through all the crap on SEO, there's a million things you can do to, to help with search engine rank. But we talk about content. Let's say you're creating content, it's quality, it's got the right keywords, it's answering the right questions. It's getting added to your site. I mean, you're going to have to get back links. You have to be careful on how you do that in a perfect world. You want to go and get permission from, you know, industry relevant websites that can put your link on their site back linking to yours. I'm sure most everyone knows what that is, but if you're there, there are more creative things you can do to have, you know, like we talked about downloadable assets where you're giving a massive amount of value. You're almost giving away what some people would consider their secret sauce or whatever, you know, whatever serving your client. The most, I, I, a long time ago realized that 99.9% of the stuff you give away or share, no one's going to do anything with, yeah. There may be a competitor that peeps it out. And, and I know Nick, you see people that spin stuff off of what you do, but is it at the end of the day? Is it, is it hurt your growth? I would assume you would say no.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
No, it actually, it helps because they're trying to figure out where it came from. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
It's like, you know, people are so worried of like guard, I think less and less, but like I got to guard what I do and like, no, give it all. I mean, man, give it all away. I think. And it's amazing thing. I, I, I even talk with competitors, direct competitors in my space. I won't name who they are that I would be if somebody asks me about them and sometimes they do, I'll be like, yeah, they're a colleague of mine. Like why like, well, why not? I mean, there's enough business to go around. So anyways, going back to the backlink and the ranking stuff, if you're giving away real value and you're not trying to like sugarcoat a bunch of nonsense and you're really giving something that people are gonna find really, really helpful and beneficial. That's, what's also creating backlinks because people are, are, are wanting to, to get that stuff and link to it.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
The other thing I would do like we're doing with this video with Nick is find people with influence, social influence, social currency, and clout, and you know, something I haven't started yet, but I am close to doing is having you can use like restream or stream yard or some kind of streaming service where you're kind of creating a video asset or zoom like this, and you're interviewing somebody like Nick's doing to me, that's, you know, that that is relevant to your audience and they have a large following and you can create these videos for 20 minutes and just pick their brain and then they're going to link to it. You're going to link to theirs. And all of a sudden you're tapping into an audience because of their social influence. And again, it's just about providing value. So there's a couple of things that can kind of really boost rank and quick.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Got it. Yeah. I agree. Definitely with the, give your best stuff out for free. I think Neil Patel mentioned that he's like the, one of the OGs of internet marketing. He's a extremely skilled dude. And I remember hearing that from him a few years ago, so,

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, I remember what, what add, draw drew me in, I think you run a variation of it. I, whatever one of your crazy physics charts that was business applicable of like profit and I don't even know math is not your, you and I are different there. I can't do math to save my life, but I was like, it was so specific. I was like, what the hell is this? And I had to do something to like customer acquisition and time and profit and revenue and all this stuff. And like, if you do this versus this, and it was so specific and it was so like, it seems like a blueprint to me. And I remember going in, and, and again, this was like a couple of years ago, but yeah, it was giving away what looked to be like a secret formula. Right. And in a way it is, it's like, here's a growth formula. Right. So, yeah, that's, that's just, that's the kind of stuff I would do

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Maybe. Yeah. We can add to that is the, not only looking for the keywords, looking for the problems and then, but spending a lot of time creating something that is valuable, like something that you would that you would want to pay for. I can provide a reference point. Like when I write content, sometimes I write it and I don't want to give it out. I want to put it in the program or I want it like, it's good enough. Like, it's really good. I'm like, I don't know if I want to give this out, but every time I come to that, I have that decision. I decided to give it out. It ended up being a really good decision because it gets picked up. It creates that trust you become the expert. It's always been a good decision to give, give that stuff out.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah. That's awesome. I'm sure. And I don't have a specific story on it, but yeah, that's just a good philosophy to have video too. I would just throw that out. You know, I think, you know, we talked about like writing content and doing a podcast and video and there's this whole creative world and social world that it's like, I haven't invested personally a ton into, cause I do have, like I said, a unique luxury that I just happen to be connected incredibly closely with the industry I serve because of my previous job. But yeah, but there's just so much you can do around not even to monetize video, but again, creating, using one thing, like an interview with somebody and using that as an asset you can spread across it's I would just leverage other people's social clout and influence who they are. And that's going back to sales, right?

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Picking up the phone or sending an email with a two minute intro on loom and saying, Hey, like if I didn't know Nick from anybody else and I wanted Nick and I to, I don't know, gain, gain what Nick has his following. Maybe I just shoot you a video, Nick. Here's what I would love to do. And here's why it would benefit you, you know, are you open to a partnership? I think you're probably, if people come to you not to gain the, like, let me, can I get on your zoom to pick your brain and learn from you? That's that's like, okay, that's to give you something. But if it's like, Hey Nick, I have an idea for a partnership. Here's why I think it's mutually beneficial. What's your thought on it? You'd probably be open to it just because you're not a huge. I wouldn't, you know what I mean, though? If you're like, yeah, tell me more. It made me maybe a good use of my time. Maybe not, but I'm definitely gonna entertain it. So yeah. Pick up the phone and hunt people down and tell them why something's worth their time. It's amazing. Yup. That's

Speaker 1 (29:42):
It sounds like you verse salesmen. So let's talk about your ideal customer, how they can find you if they are interested. Who's, who's your who's in your wheelhouse? How would you describe it? What benefits would they get by working with you and how can they find you?

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Our ideal client would be a solo or small law firm, mostly in the personal injury space. So those are the guys doing catastrophic injury, wrongful death, car wreck cases, things like that. As you mentioned, you know, divorce and family law, criminal defense, mass tort, which would be like dangerous drugs, dangerous products, class actions, wage, an hour firms that are B to C basically. Right? So any B2C law firm that is interested in being a dominant player in their market. So usually they're in a somewhat localized market and they understand marketing and understand that there's value in organic search and that it's not dead. And they're looking at somebody that is going to cut through all sorts of, like I said, the, the BS and the nonsense around what really moves the needle and could put together something customized. Their options for our clients are usually working with some kind of national marketing company with a lot of name recognition, a lot of clients, and a lot of sort of a track record, but is bolting on SEO into this just ambiguous package.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
It's diluted. It doesn't do anything. The questions I asked my clients are, what are you getting for SEO? And is it working in 99% of the time? They're like, I know I'm paying for it. I don't know what I'm really getting out of it. Like, I don't know what my service deliverables are and I really have no idea what's working, not working. I don't know if it is, I have no idea. And that's a problem as a business owner, why you would spend money on something you don't know if it's working or what you're getting. So we just try to be transparent. And we really work with firms that are wanting to be in a dominant position and are ready to invest to be in that position with somebody that, you know, isn't the cheapest out there, but produces results.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Got it. And the unique value prop is how, how would how would you describe that? How, w how, what makes you the highest performance in the, in the market?

Speaker 2 (31:46):
I would say transparency with results, meaning and customization around what we do. So we are, we ask questions like, you know, what zip codes are your clients, and you know, what types of questions are they asking when they are coming in? We get really, really intimately knowledgeable around their business and their clients. And, and it's interesting when you look at a law firm, you can really even say like a divorce lawyer really break down specifics, whether it's high asset contested, non contested, I mean, I'm speaking legal jargon a little bit, but we just really understand their clients. And, and when you, when you can fire the laser, you know, even if it is SEO specifically to, to speak to their client's biggest pain points no most other SEO providers are not going that deep into, you know, their client avatars and their pain points and understanding how

Speaker 3 (32:40):
To connect all those dots. And because we've done that successfully, we can show people how to do that.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Got it. And if someone is in that archetype work and they find you, what what site can they go to? And, and who can they contact?

Speaker 3 (32:52):
They just go to

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Bizfinderseo.Com. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well well, I appreciate your time. And again, we'll site is So if you're a lawyer and you fall into that archetype, go visit him. Well appreciate it. And we will we'll see you on the group calls.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
All right. My friend talk soon.

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