How Jon Helps Recruiters Start And Grow Their Own Profitable Businesses (Customer Story)

Nick Kozmin and Jon Chintanaroad

Speaker 1 (00:02): All right guys. So we have Mr. Jon Chintanaroad from learntorecruit.com. Now John helps people start and build their own recruiting companies if I'm correct. Yep. And he built a successful recruiting company himself, and now he's many sold it to his partner and he's been helping folks build their own recruiting companies. And he's doing very well. He started in the sales process sale program. He's got his revenue up to now about $20,000 a month. And now he's starting to scale with paid advertising. And some of some of the methods that we teach to scale it up from 20k to a 100k a month. So John, why don't we go through your story and try and make it as useful as possible. There, there might be some people who are interested in learning how to build recruiting businesses as well. So why don't you, why don't you tell me the story? How did you how'd you get here Speaker 2 (00:57): And glad to be here by the way. So I worked at different recruiting agencies for about four or five years in my career. And every time I enjoy my job really kind of grew learn a lot by recruiting, but I couldn't avoid the feeling of like, whenever I saw how much I would bill, like, you know, recruiting agencies typically charge 20 to 25% of a candidate salary for every hire. So on in San Francisco where I live minimum, that's a 20 K fee closer to 25 or 30 K normally. So I would generate these 25, 30 K placement fees, but then my paycheck would reflect like 20% of that or less. Right. So there was that Delta that was always frustrating me. And like, Oh man, this is, I did all the work and I have to give most of it to the house. Speaker 2 (01:40): Right. And and why cause they got a desk and they paid for a cool office and a phone, but, and a nice brand. And so that always was nagging. But I, I wish I had the courage to have done something about it sooner. Like I always wanted to do my own thing, but I kept waiting for the ducks to be in a row, like one day when I have the right enough money or this or clients banging on my door, then I'll do it. But I just, that never happened. So years went by until finally my last recruiting agency job, they went through a mass layoff and cut their technology division, including me. And so I'm like at first I was upset, sad, shocked the whole, you know, rural culture feelings. And then I called my top clients I was working with because I was a full stack recruiter. Speaker 2 (02:21): So meant that I was talking to clients and candidates. Right. I had sales and recruiting and my background and my top two clients were like, Oh, well, sorry to hear that, John. But we want to keep working with you. Why don't you go out and start your own recruiting business and we'll sign an agreement with you. I'm like, wow. And so when, when Emma, my second client said the exact same thing, I was like, well, I got to give it a shot. I'm on unemployment. I can do this for three months and worst case, I can get a recruiting job if it doesn't work out, but might as well just take a stab at it. And it worked out and I made my first placement within a few weeks. And then those terms are net 30. So I'm like, well, I got to wait 30 days to get paid. Speaker 2 (02:55): So miles we'll just keep plugging away. And the deals kept coming in, grew it brought on a partner, sold it to him. And it turned out to be a really fun journey. But it was hard in that in the beginning. Like no one taught me how to do it. I like, like, I didn't know. It you're supposed to say for tax this. Or like, I also was used to getting a paycheck. So that end of the year, when they're like, you owe $45,000, I'm like, Oh shoot, I forgot about the half to save for self-employment tax. Right. Which I kind of knew the back of my mind, but I was young and I was like enjoying the money. Right. Versus saving it aside and stuff like that. Newbie mistakes that really were painful. And so and at the time, eight years ago, there weren't any coaches or programs out there to help recruiters like me. So when I got to of the point in my journey where I was coaching a lot of people and helping friends start their own businesses and recruiting, I thought, man, I wish I had someone like me in day one because if I have someone like me in my corner, I would've made more money, save a lot of headache and you had more fun. And so that's how I got started. Speaker 1 (03:58): And so now what are you offering and what are you promising to your customer? Yes. Speaker 2 (04:03): So my program is called recruiting accelerator and it's kind of has three parts. It has the, the six week course where that does 70% of the education I do twice per week coaching calls, where they work with me directly. And you've kinda inspired me for that too, because a lot of coaches, every single program I've ever gone into, besides yours, the person who made the program, doesn't do the coaching. It's somebody else. Right. It's like the junior coach, but every time I jumped on the call, like Pam Nixon, Nick called this call to wait and I'm like, wait, he's on every call. And I thought that was so cool because yeah, you're, you're so hands-on, and that inspired me to be like, you know what, sure. I can hire a junior coach that I'm sure is great, but I want to be directly involved and directly be that guiding hand in my client's success. Speaker 2 (04:48): Right. So thanks for being that role model for me. So I do twice a week coaching calls and then daily support through the Facebook group or email and that's the bulk of it. And recently what I'd started adding to was what I call a sales wing man, part of the program where you know, through my prospect and training that I teach my recruiter and, you know, recruiters are good at recruiting, not necessarily trained to prospect and sell for clients. And once they book a call with a potential client, I'll tell you, Hey, if you don't have a client yet, I will literally jump on every single sales call that you have that you book and introduce me as a recruiting partner, introduced me as your junior recruiter. I don't care. And I'll do as much or as little talking as it takes to get them to be like, all right, I'll send the signed agreement over. And so I'll do whatever it takes to get you on the board because once they are on the board, it's like a light switch goes off. It's a mindset shift. Right. They feel like, Oh man, I'm, I'm a real entrepreneur now. And then their confidence kind of just takes it to the next level and they don't need my help. Speaker 1 (05:48): Got it. Yeah. So one of the things you mentioned was the, the customer results part of the program, but we did it in a little, pre-interview maybe comment on that. Yeah, because nobody's like variable life. You're the first person who I've seen, who actually jumps in and closes the deal for their first couple of clients. Like, so how did you get that idea? How did you arrive to that strategy? Yeah, Speaker 2 (06:13): It's a funny story is like, yeah, a lot of my coaching clients were booking calls. They're like, Hey, I got this call tomorrow. I'm like, good luck, like a gift to the pointers. And then the next day I'm like, how'd it go like, Oh, it didn't go so well. Or I got nervous. I choked, they threw a curve ball question that I didn't anticipate. They were kind of grilling me asking me, like, why should we use you when we can use a bigger agency? Tell me about your expertise. And they get just choked. Right? Sales is hard. Especially recruiters are used to talking to job seekers and that they can do that, you know, in their sleep. But they're not really trained to talk to director and VP level hiring managers who are like, or founders. Right. And so that nervousness really, and, and it's hard for them to like even get a shot book, a call. Speaker 2 (06:55): And then when they have those calls, they're not converting them. And that's why I'm like, all right, I see this gap here. They're getting here and they're falling off at the, at the call. So let me just interject and jump in and just be in their corner. Right. And and it's worked as helped and people are posting like, thanks, John. I got this client, you know, literally one, one girl, Monica. She was like, John, I'm still nervous. Can you do all the talking? I'm like, sure. And I did like 99% until the very end. I'm like, all right, well, Monica, we'll follow up with the agreement that 20% like we discussed. And, and she'll go from, she'll work with you from there. Right. She'll be your direct you know, liaison at that point. And it's kind of, and that's kind of a hack. Speaker 2 (07:30): It's a cheat, but I feel like people need training wheels before they're ready to right on their own. And, and I actually got that from you in your program, what really inspired me, what you have is you're an engineer. So do you have a flowchart that at first I'm like, this is super complicated, but the very top of the flow chart was like, is your solution working if no, go back and get results and like, forget the rest of the nine, 9% of the flowchart beneath with add and scaling and all the sexy automation, like at the very top, like if this is not working, do not continue. Right. Do not, do not go to go, do not collect $200. They'll click any money to go back. And until you have those case studies and then that rule, and no one does that, no one talks about any of the program. I bought a bunch of different consulting programs and coaching programs. Everyone's like, Hey, do your best. But just scale up, run ads, make money, do this. Right. Like hit seven figures. Like, no one's talking about like, yo, if it's not working, you got to stop. Because I remember I asked you at one point, Hey, should I run Facebook ads? You're like, dude, unless your solution is working well, you're going to be scaling like a piece of turd and you'll be in trouble. And I'm like. All right. That's cool. Speaker 1 (08:40): Yeah. Yeah. And has that paid off, like, has the customers results in that extra effort paid off? Speaker 2 (08:45): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. They all start getting clients. It actually gave me the confidence to layer on the second like services or the second offering where I offer money back guarantee now. Cause I'm like, wait a second. If I'm checking on every single person's call, I might as well offer a money back guarantee because I'm confident in my sales skills to close a client for them. So might as well just guarantee it to de-risk the program. And that's helped people to even give themselves a shot of sort of a shot, because a big part of it is like recruiters who work for an agency or a company. They had to have an employment agreement that somehow there might be a clause that says non conflict of interest, blah, blah, blah. And so like most people I talked to her, like, I wish I could start my own recruiting agency, but I'm afraid it might be a conflict of interest or I'm afraid of getting in trouble with lawyers because of I signed a non-compete and little did they know that's really not enforceable. It's not restrictive. It's super easy to maneuver around. But when I offer like a guarantee and I'll jump on the call with them and they're like, all right, Speaker 1 (09:44): What is it? That's an irresistible offer. Speaker 2 (09:47): Right. I try to make it that way. Cause it's what I would want if I were in their shoes. Right. Got it. Speaker 1 (09:53): And so let's talk about pricing cause before you came in it was priced a little differently and we have to price it to make the economics work. So let's walk through that process and how you tackle that problem. Yeah, sure. Speaker 2 (10:08): It was hard because in the beginning I literally didn't know if anybody would pay like a hundred bucks for this. I'm like, I mean, I figured it on my own, so I'm sure anyone else could, but at the beginning of the first person who wanted to work with me, I just threw out a number like 1800 and they're like, sure. I'm like, Oh man, this is crazy. And at that time it was one-on-one I didn't have a course a program. I was doing all one-on-one coaching. And then I think you said, Hey, for every three or five people that you enroll, just increase it by a thousand. Right. And you'll attract better people and just keep adding as long as you deliver, just keep doing that. And so I kept doing that to 2,800 to 3,000 and then 4,000. And I remember I had a call, I jumped on the call with you, one of your coaching calls. Speaker 2 (10:47): And I'm like, all right. And like, I gotta tell you I've I've done three or four people at this price they sign on, but I'm too, I don't know that she raised any more like $4,000. That's a lot of money. I don't care how much money you have. And back when I was recruiting that, I mean, I was getting started. That's a lot of money like, and you're like, just do it. And like, I have a mindset like issue right now. You're like, just do it. Like no explanation. You're like, just do it. I'm like fine. I'm just gonna listen to you. And sure enough, the next week, like two people enrolled at 5,800, like in cash, like painful, like no, no qualms about it. And now it's a 6,800 is my program. Of course I've added on services like me jumping on calls. Right. Speaker 2 (11:28): So I feel like I can justify that. But what what's what's what's happened that was funny was that everyone who paid $5,000 or $6,800 showed up to every call, they're doing the work, they're getting results. There are people who paid two, three, $4,000 and they don't even show up to the calls. Like one guy gave me the first guy to 1800, never showed the once. He's like, ah, I'm busy. I'll get back to you. And so even though like part B felt kind of greedy or that, that, that like head trash is like, Oh, don't be greedy, John. Like, you're doing fine. Don't charge people too much money. I realized I was doing them a disservice by charging them so little cause they would invest, get excited, then get shiny object syndrome, never show up. Whereas the people that invested more took it seriously. And of course I do whatever it takes to them, for them to get success too. So I ended up attracting a much higher caliber of recruiter who was serious and they wanted to get their investment back their ROI and I'm in the, with them. Right. Speaker 1 (12:23): Got it. And so what were the key takeaways from the for the programmer? What were the biggest benefits that you experienced from working with us? Yeah, Speaker 2 (12:33): Like a few, like the one was like one technique of using LinkedIn automation. Like I, as a recruiter, I've used LinkedIn for well over 10 years, but did everything manually, which is the traditional way of doing it. And when you're like, Hey, you can just do what you're doing manually, but scale it and not seem like a spammy robot. You can still sound like a nice likable human being. I was like, Holy cow. Right. And also I've heard about LinkedIn automation for years, but I was always afraid because as a recruiter, like if you lose your LinkedIn account Cali, you went to LinkedIn jail. Like if I got my LinkedIn account banned, you'd be like a death sentence. Like as a recruiter, like you can't do your job. So I was so afraid of it, but it wasn't till I saw all your module on that where you're like, this works it's field tested, no problems. Speaker 2 (13:15): Here's how to do it safely. That gave me the faith. But you know what, let me try it. It worked really well in my account and now I've scaled it. So I have four LinkedIn accounts in my business, all for doing 75 connection requests. So I'm doing 300 per day, seven days a week on all the pilot. And that basically tripled my client base. It's just from that alone. So that was huge. And I remember you said something like, I hope this opens up Pandora's box for you to grow your business. I'm like, ah, like mind blown. Right? So that was the first one and even little stuff about like how to optimize your energy. Like you mentioned in one of your like YouTube videos, you're like, Hey, in the morning when you're alert, when you're fresh, do sales calls. Cause that's when you need yourself at your best, don't work out, you know? Yeah. Focus on selling more and not trying to lift three more pounds in your workout. And I'm like, you know, wearing a tank Speaker 1 (14:00): Top, I caught tambien. Speaker 2 (14:03): I'm like, I'm a stupid meathead, right. Why am I, why am I, why am I lifting with two hours of morning and being tired and having to take a long break? And it's 11 o'clock and I haven't done any sales. Right. So that, even that a little from a two minute YouTube video, like changing my whole game. And then I think lastly, yeah. And then going back to like serving your client first and until you get a case till you, until you get a raving review of how someone loves what you do and kind of what I'm doing here with you is that nothing really matters, like do that first. Right? So even if it means you take your time, even if it means you spend a year getting your first three case studies, like who cares, like that's the most important thing. And that philosophy will like results for clients over money that you can make for yourself. I was like, everyone's telling you, everyone's saying the opposite. And everyone's saying like, you know scale is seven figures. Here's my Lambo. Although I know you have a Lambo on your pictures too, but Hey, you know, you worked hard for it. So it's a little different story. Speaker 1 (15:00): Yeah. I did. It is focusing on your customers or else they're going to be, you're not going to be able to get to that the high level, if you don't focus on your customers, for sure. Like, it just you'll get refunds and you're not going to be around very, very long. Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:15): Yeah. And like, and you, and like you didn't, you don't just say it. And then like I see you once a month in like a giant webinar with everybody else on there. Like I see you on every single call, like three times a week. I think you do your coaching calls. I'm like, wait, this guy is, does not have to be, you could hire a, another coach and free yourself over those calls. But I'm like, no, knowing Nick based on what I can see about him, he's probably, he probably doesn't feel like he wants to let control over that to anybody else because no one else could probably get the same type of insight as you in your organization. So you're like, and that's the most important thing. So you probably don't want to outsource that even if it means freeing up your time. Speaker 1 (15:55): Well, not yet. Not yet. We are building mechanisms to do that, but I but we want to like, and we're documenting everything, but I just want to make sure that I'm able to help the customers and that's just a habit. Yeah. So but yeah. So who would you recommend sales process IO to if you if you were, Speaker 2 (16:14): Yeah, I definitely recommend you guys you've yeah, help me out. So like triple my client, triple my client base, triple my price, right. Went from 18 hundreds of 6,800 when from like eight clients now to like over 30 clients. So you've tripled up, I think my mindset to triple everything of, you know, three X. And so anybody who is feeling stuck, kind of doing things the traditional way, like I was, I was doing manual work, everything that you feel you've hit a plateau and you want to break above that with strategies, with tools, with direct coaching, with mindset help, especially if you're a SAS, if you're in technology or if you're doing high ticket offers like, like myself, I couldn't recommend you guys. Well, feel free to reach out to me directly. If you have questions about your program, I'd be happy to talk to you to see if I think what you're doing might be a good fit, but most likely it's gonna be okay. Speaker 1 (17:04): Yes. Awesome. And where can they find you if they would like to learn about building a recruiting business Speaker 2 (17:12): On LinkedIn and learntorecruit.com, Speaker 1 (17:15): Recruit.Com and can we give them any things special? Like a it's just so they know that there's so you know that they came from this webinar. Can we give them a little bit of a yeah, go ahead. Yeah, Speaker 2 (17:32): Sure. Sure, man. Well, I think the first good step is to watch the training video. It's an actually, this is, I should include too. It's I have an hour 45 minute long training video that is like no nonsense, no marketing fluff, and just pure how to set up your business. And I tell people in my, Hey, if you aren't able to work with me or another coach, for whatever reason, just take what you learned from the video and implement it. You will be able to get the ball rolling. Right. And so that will be a good first step, which by the way, I got that from you up until then every single program I took was like, Hey, do a 20 minute commercial use Flint, acknowledges examples, trait urgency creates scarcity. I'm like, and you're like, no, just give as much value as possible and to blow their minds. Speaker 2 (18:16): And then they're like, Oh my God, if I get this for free, how much more valid can I get if I actually work with this guy and that, and never in the history of like, have I ever thought I would make an hour 45 minute long, like presentation, but people love it. People who sit through are like, thank you. You, you, you show your word for word script. Like, why are you giving away this for free? I'm like, eh, why not? Right. Because I wish I had it. And if people kind of form a program, they should just take it for free if they can. And they want to work with me to get it done faster. I mean, I'll talk to them. So that's a good place to start. And then if you mentioned that you came from Nick here or this interview I'll be happy to invite you to one of my coaching calls, sit in, hang out in the back observe, see what's going on. I think it'll be fun to be in that environment around other recruiting entrepreneurs. Speaker 1 (19:01): Cool. Cool. Awesome. So guys, if you are looking to build a recruiting business, go talk to John and John, I really appreciate the time of the attention and the kind words and yeah, this is a fantastic interview. Yeah. Speaker 2 (19:14): Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. No problem. Speaker 1 (19:18): All right. So I ended there. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Any other questions that you have for me? This is a it's I always like hearing, but what the how the customer is feeling. So it's mainly the, like the goal setting. Is that the, Speaker 2 (19:36): The problem right now for me, I mean, I've had I mean, I hit that cap of 20 K month and, but you said just solve that by throwing more money at ad spend, hopefully the YouTube app as targeting should fill my calendar and also get an SDR to generate more appointments for me. Right. Speaker 1 (19:56): Yup. Do you, and what is the goal? Is that a hundred grand a month? Speaker 2 (19:59): I mean, I, I mean, if I could hit 50, it's weird. Right. I don't know, like, am I right now it's 50 K a month would be like a magic number, 50 K a month. I will have no problems. I'd be like pie in the sky happy. But then when I was at, you know, 5k month, that number is 20 K I'm already at that. So I'm sure the needle always be moving forward. The care will be moving farther away. But yeah, my goal is 50 K a month. If I can do that. And with my program at 6,800, that's like what, maybe five sales a month. If I could do five conversions a month, then that would do the trick. Right? Speaker 1 (20:33): Yep. That's yeah. You're pretty much there. Like you're there. Yeah. For while you would need about 10, right. To get 50,000. Speaker 2 (20:41): Yeah. I guess yeah. Closer to seven or eight, right at 6,800. Yeah, Speaker 1 (20:44): Yeah. Yeah. So, and then less ad spend. So 50,000 net, Speaker 2 (20:50): Right? Yeah. Yeah. 50,000 net, right. Would be, would be 10 to two a week. Yep. Speaker 1 (20:55): That's doable. That's doable with this model. It's just you know what I, I had there's like these little Japanese dolls that I use, here's like a little trick they're called like a door Dora dolls or something like that, where they're like, goal-setting Japanese dolls where you can buy them on Amazon for like five bucks or something. And you, you color in one eye when the goal is set. And then when the goal is hit, you color in the other eye. So it's like a stupid trick, but that worked sure. Speaker 2 (21:28): I love that stuff. Speaker 1 (21:29): It's I? Yeah, like it's, it's something that worked for me. One of my customers recommended it to me and I was just like, okay. Yeah, let's try it out. And this little doll sat on my desk. Speaker 2 (21:39): That's awesome, dude. Yeah. Are you are you still doing the incentive-based pricing by the way or fast action or are you, are your reps giving the price just as is Speaker 1 (21:50): We still do incentive based pricing if they close right away. Yeah. Speaker 2 (21:54): Yeah. Got it. And all your sales stuff is still the same from the training. Anything you guys have any edits or modifications since you produce that, by the way, like doing some index over this Speaker 1 (22:06): Has been updated a little bit, but it's still the same process. Like the main thing is like it's getting the reps to follow the script, Speaker 2 (22:15): Right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. Right. And not be a cowboy. Right? Yeah. So as long as you're still in camp, Iceland, Canada, by the way, every time I see you, you have a different background. So either that or your world traveling Speaker 1 (22:26): I'm in, I'm in Toronto right now. Yep. But it's there I'm probably going to be out of here pretty soon. They really tough with the lockdown restrictions. Yeah. Speaker 2 (22:37): Yeah. So got it. Well, no, man, thanks for your help. I know. Yeah. I can't wait to get to F if it hits 50 K I'll reach out to you and I'll post something, right. Yeah. I'll make a post. You can use as a case study, but yeah, that would be, I would be thrilled. So you know, yeah, man. Speaker 1 (22:55): And yeah, just I'll see you on the calls. If you have any other questions about this, just hit me up. Speaker 2 (22:59): Yeah, man. I appreciate it really deal, man. You've changed a lot from me. You've helped me out. So yeah. Thanks for letting me do this interview for you, for sure. Thanks, John. All right, man. You're welcome.

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